The LogoSauce Blog
logosauce rewrite Question 5 - comp entrants
We’ve had a another design competition recently that has caused concern to designers because the winning design was from a new designer with just one entry (the winning design). Not only that but it was clearly a poor design choice with many of the competing designs far superior.
This suggests that there was possibly some collusion between the client and the selected winner. There may what seem valid reasons for the client to take this action – however it is patently unfair to Logosauce designers who have worked on entries in good-faith.
Despite corresponding with the designer and client and being assured there was no collusion or prior relationship, doubts remain.
So how do we deal with this in the future.
We’ve had a lot of input from the Logosauce community but unfortunately many of the suggestions are complex and bordering on elitist. We still want to encourage anyone to “have-a-go” and we don’t want to take the fun and suspense out of participating in competitions.
So we’ve come up with a very simple solution. Simply restrict entrants to those that were registered users prior to the creation of a competition. This means that if you join as a user after a competition is created you will not be able to enter that competition.
In the aforementioned competition the winning designer became a member just 5 days before the competition close. With this new restriction in place – the designer would not have been able to enter the competition and the client would not have been able to select that design as the winner.
By Digger over 2 years ago.
Tags: competitionsissues
Comments:
Digger I think your solution is a very well thought out one and will avoid this from happening.
@colorbook thanks that’s a nice succinct list and worth putting somewhere on the site.
Before the design phase the client should also consider what makes a good brand/brand name. Al and Laura Ries’ classic book The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding is compulsory reading for anyone working with brands.
How about making it a “competition,” meaning there is a prize for 1st, 2nd and 3rd. This would also benefit the many designers who will never realistically win a competition while the “elite/professionals” continue to submit superior designs. Since most of the designers agree that it is the “challenge” which is more important than the “win,” you could take the $200 and divide it into $125 (1st), $75 (2nd) and $25 for 3rd! What are the thoughts of the 90% of the designers who haven’t won a competition? And – “no” I’m not a bitter designer, I just see the overall picture!
@k1w1 We’ve considered 1,2 & 3rd position – and I know other sites have these – but i don’t think splitting the prize-money makes sense – there is only one winner at the end of the day.
We are considering letting the clients select a runner up and allocating additional points to the designer (no money) and recognizing runner up status somewhere in the profile, but I think for many clients who struggle to pick a winner at all, having to pick 3 may be just to big an ask.
Lets try to keep this post on topic – what I want is feedback on what you think of the date limitation on competition entries.
you could take the $200 and divide it into $125 (1st), $75 (2nd) and $25 for 3rd! << lol where is that extra $25 came from jejeje
btw i think that a solution for now to avoid those happen again…. but from the darkside that mean if i’m a designer and first come to the site and i will not able to participate any contest at all unless something new come up, so i guess some email notification for new event will be sweet for them
@kokonut see above – we are not going to split the prizemoney for second and third. Makes no sense as the client is paying for and gets only one design (they can only use one). Everybody else keeps their ideas and IP. Often some of the art can be reused elsewhere.
This is true but there are new contests all the time – so there is usually something to post to – and in the mean time they can upload previous work and build their portfolio.
I agree with digger there can be only one winner and takes the whole prize, about the rule change is fine with me to avoid more cases like image 180 fraud, probably there can be honorific prizes for second and third places according to client’s criteria probably this can be possible if there’s some kind of digital form of judgment so the client can answer who gets the 1st the 2nd and 3rd, thanks for your concern digger but also there’s a pair of contests that have ended with not winner PLEDGE FOR US & AUTOINSURANCE STORE, i believe on both contests is almost the same case as image 180 the designer’s effort was useless, many logo options to chose, and i believe in both cases we need to have a winner by now, i dont know, maybe you have make the last decision, or if you have any better idea, we will support you. Thanks again.
i think the rules should apply asap ….. by looking at that…. http://logosauce.com/profiles/6169 …. Welcome to Geelong, AU!!
if that’s kind of thing happen that flequent i guess will hasitate a lot of designer to join anymore
@kokonut – yeh looks that way. here we go again. investigation to follow.
I agree with Kowan another fishy contest? New designer 1 day before the contest ended, who knows, hopefully its not the case.
Regarding 1st, 2nd and 3rd places, maybe you can do 2nd and 3rd with points: 100 points for first place, 50 for 2nd and 25 for 3rd. Just a thought.
Cheers.
too many doubts in the results mean that the site loses credibility. Although you may enter today and just go and win a contest … there are certain elements that raise suspicions. In my case I very recently recorded … and I participated in several competitions and at least 3 proposals in each second that the new rules had not been involved … although it is not an alternative to block abnormalities continue to be … Research should be thorough and even disable these people ..
There should be an investigation on this one too it seems happened again: http://www.logosauce.com/competitions/572
I’m glad to see some kind of action has been implemented. I sure hope it works out for future competitions. The comp that has been pointed out during this discussion also brings up possible wrong doing.
A simple and effective solution. Great!
Hey Digger,
Thanks for your efforts, and you do have a nice solution, however it’s not that tightly sealed.
Competition openers can just read this rule and create a ‘designers’ account prior to their ‘competition’ account.
And like Revotype says, the International Internships competition seems very, very fishy. Competition closed 10 April, winning designer registered 9 April. The design doesn’t even qualify for the design brief requirements, anyone noticed that?
I think the rules should be far more strict.
An example solution: Anyone can enter any design competition, like you say “just have a go”. But a designer can only receive the prize money after they designed – let’s say – 5 logo’s for 5 different competitions, PLUS they have to be registered for at least 3 months.
This way someone can win a competition with their first ever logo, while making fraudulent competitions more difficult.
Exactly Seph… that should work even better let’s put 30 days registered at least before and i agree 5 logos in at least 5 different competitions (minimum one on each to be clear), digger’s effort in this case is evident but i think rules should be more strict because in the contrary logosauce may lose credibility and i think that’s not fair after realizing this community has a high level of quality, commitment and hard work. Feedback is very important outhere and sometimes we have clients that rarely give some and one of the worse cases when the client changes completely the brief after 15 o 10 days and they look to extend it as it happend with AUTOINSURANCE and then all before work goes to nothing, that kind of thing is very dissapointing too.
I agree with U all for the new designers! I joined in logosauce just a mounth ago and these 2 latest wins are unexeptable. In addition I suggest that the client must have a form to fill (brief of the company, colors prefered: not neccessarily, style: modern-classic, date announcement of the winner etc. and not change it any time he likes) also he must pay the cost when he cancels the competion to the designer who got the higher score! (Some clients playaround without any cost). And it is important that HIS COMMIMENT TO THE DESIGNERS IS TO ANSWER AT ANY FEEDBACK. THE PRICE OF THE LOGO IS VERY LOW AND I HAVE THE FEELLING SOME CLIENTS DO NOT RESPECT THE EFFORTS OF THE DESIGNERS!!!!
Here is another suggestion….Instead of just having the designers enter their creations, I think they should apply a design brief and overview of process, that way the clients can understand the procedure and creative thought that are put into these logos. Also this would prevent frauds who post work that is not original from winning. Designers would be respected for the hard work they do and Clients would value the logo as an asset that would stand as the identity of the company..
.P.S I agree with Theoni “THE PRICE OF THE LOGO IS VERY LOW AND I HAVE THE FEELLING SOME CLIENTS DO NOT RESPECT THE EFFORTS OF THE DESIGNERS!!!!”
Digger, I think your solution is simple and elegant and is the place to start. If, after implementing it we continue to have problems, then we could think about further measures. For now, simple is usually best (just like a good design):)
I personally don’t agree with hardly any of the above statements. I can understand why some people may find it a little disconcerting that a sub-par logo won – but most just sound bitter. Anyone who works as a professional designer knows that clients don’t always pick the best logo. In fact, very often they don’t. The fact that someone entered only one logo, was a new member, and this was their first competition is irrelevant. It may have just been the one the client liked the best – we aren’t the ones to judge that or question it. The majority of the people who are bitter are folks who seemingly spend hours working on logos for these competitions – which really should just be fun, not a job. Be proud of what you came up with and forget about the money. No real designer would ever sell a logo for $200 anyway. Besides what would anyone have to gain by defrauding this system?
@dduvic – like your thinking. Also note that it IS costing the client. Sure it’s a minimum of just 10% of the prizemoney – so the loss is low but I think the number of brands/clients that would intentionally set out to pick a design they already had is going to be few and far between. Furthermore there is a bigger risk and that is to their reputation. The world is a small place and the web (even this discussion) can be found and viewed by anyone.
So on balance I think a simpler solution as suggested along with common sense and smart clients is the best way forward.
off topic @dduvic – I think you presume too much and perhaps too speak out of turn. Yes this is mostly fun for some of us but for others, it is part of an income stream and is treated seriously as such. The feeling of having been used as a source of ideas/inspiration without some sort of remuneration/recognition must surely be irksome to those people. Also, many here have been part of this community for some time and will have had to make these considerations more than once and thus been bothered more than once by the whole issue. Speaking for myself at least, it has nothing to do with sour grapes over having lost a contest. (I’ve said it elsewhere that it’s a subjective business we are in and we ultimately need to catch the contest holder’s eye. You said as much above.) Rather, whatever “bitterness” there is comes as a result of having been used/taken advantage of. I can see that being enough to drive away many who might be good designers but who might not have thick skins. So, since we’re here to build a community of designers (both thick-skinned and not) rather than discourage some, and since as we both agree, this is meant to be fun, why not take the issue seriously, and take some steps to alleviate matters? It can’t hurt to do as Digger suggested…
In my opinion Diggs, you guys should find a solution for resolving the unfinished competitions rather than using your energy on investigations of the “fake” winners. Sorry if this is the wrong blog for this comment but I really think that this issue is of higher importance. You cannot really control what the customer will chose in the end( as stated above by dduvic) but you can resolve the unfinished business.
@shorty yes we’re working on a solution in the new rewritten version
At this point could the Vector Building competition be considered abandoned? It ended on April 17 – how much time are the clients allotted for winner selection? Thanks.
@dduvic 14 days is allowed for choosing a winner. However some have taken longer in the past yet still selected a winner. So don’t give up hope just yet.
for me is the best digger … I support your initial idea
it is better if you do not announce when the designer wants to enter the competition system emits a warning (you can not participate for these reasons) and then explains why, so it will be too late for fraud
it is better not to tell even before this warning in any blog
I just came across this website and have just joined this. I have also made an entry into a competition. I think this is totally unfair to deprive newbies of existing competitions. You can resort to other measures such as comparing their quality of work to other entrants.
for a designer is not difficult to make 4 designs and demonstrate that it is making a fraud, showing it wants to be a contestant being interesting … this is only my way of thinking
I think it’s a good idea, but I’m not convinced that this will resolve all problems. By the way, I realised that something is wrong with this rule. Look at this competition: http://www.logosauce.com/competitions/632. We still have competitors here, who became Logosauce members after the competition was created. Is it possible? Very interesting…
@herlius – not implemented yet. Adding to new v2 in development.
i think that the idea of 1st 2nd and 3d place its good. 1st place money price, 2nd and 3d place just get mentioned!!
http://www.logosauce.com/logos/60911 what happened to the, no one can join and enter a logo whilst this comp is on??
I think, to insure that a quality design that will serve the client’s purposes is chosen, it might be a good idea to have the client, before creating a competition, read a quick report about what goes into a good design, such as found here: http://www.identityworks.com/issues/issues1.htm I would also make it available to the designers as a sort of “checklist” and to aid in inspiration.