The LogoSauce Blog
Logosauce Re-write - free for all
Ok here’s your chance to let rip. Any idea big or small new or old, borrowed or copied.
If you have a great idea on ways to improve Logosauce for designers, clients and others that is sensible and doable, let us and the community know with a comment.
Remember – no guarantees – please don’t be offended if we don’t run with your idea.
By Digger over 2 years ago.
Comments:
I’d like to see a follow-up/through on both the “Best Logo in the World” ideas vis-a-vi book, poster, or whatever and I too would like these pesky ‘undeclared winner’ contests cleared off and the prize money put toward the cost of publishing the above mentioned…
@ Java: Good shout, then we can spot all of those who faviorite thier own logos!! :P
ezie – I do that. It’s a quick way of being able to return to a specific design for later reference…:) On a different note, I think the designs submitted count ought to be supplimented with a count of contests entered.
RetroMetro/Steve – It’s coming. The Book is gonna be pretty interesting I hope – something quite different. Stay tuned.
@Steve: ah fair enough, you have nearly 5 times as many logos as i do so i cant really talk! hehe :)
Another idea I got. As you can see on every competition, there are often A LOT of entry’s from the same contestants, sometimes filling up the entire pages. It would be better if you could set 1 logo as your main entry:
For example it could say: Jimholio has submitted 4 logo’s in this competition. (You should be able to set a thumbnail of your own favorite entry) Once someone clicks on the thumbnail it could show all the different logo’s the same contestant has made.
And for example if I would add a new logo it could say, Jimholio has updated his entrys (and it should be moved back to page 1 again.)
Quality is better then quantity, ALWAYS.
Quality is better then quantity, ALWAYS.
i second this statement. I’d love to see a limitation on # of entries per designer, would definitely make sure designers think harder about what they enter. I think the site is cheapened when a viewer goes onto a competition and sees a bunch of entries that are virtually the same, with only slight changes and/or poor entries. Also, when seeing a bunch of poor quality entries, one gets bored and disappointed quickly when browsing. Limiting the # of entries won’t guarantee higher quality submissions, but it certainly will cut back on the poorer ones. if a potential comp. holder is viewing entries,and sees a # of quality ones versus just a bunch of junk like many enter, as if they think the more they enter the better their chances, there’s a higher probability that the customer will sign up with logosauce.
I doubt such a limitation would be instated here, but thought I’d throw it out there anyway.
I like the idea of a designer making an “entry” into a competition and that entry may include several designs or versions of a design. This could be complimented by a limit to the number of entries (e.g. 3) . So a designer can make 3 entries but each entry can have a number of variations of the same essential design.
However do you really want a limit of entries?
Digger I think that’s pretty much exactly what I meant… It would certainly make a lot of difference towards quality designs.
I like aspects of Jim’s suggestion and I share Paul’s concerns – we all want quality over quantity. At the same time, however, Marcus is right to point out that ideas that evolve over a series of iterations are often improved ideas – often thanks to valuable feedback from the community. I note that some sites enforce a rating and feedback system from the contest holder and I have often thought we should have the same here. I believe that quickly weeds out alot of what we are talking about – poor quality, excessive iteration, irrelevance, and such. Of course, if such a system were implemented, it would require some coding to re-order the entries each time ranking has changed: that way the best foot is always forward, so to speak.
RetroMetro/Steve: That would be even better. Then you get a better idea of what the competition holder is after as well. As for the coding, it shouldn’t be anything major. A simple review system, instead of score per click which is a rather stupid system, considering hotlinks from forums and blogs etc will give the competition holder a very flawed view of what people like.
Off topic: There aren’t many competitions going on at the moment. How come there’s suddenly such a drop?
Blerq, They come and go with no real pattern I’m afraid. One moment they’re getting a little thin then they pour in. We’re doing any advertising yet and all the activity to date has been done via word of mouth and google.
Might be time we looked at some advertising perhaps.
And if we drop scores for views across the board the totals cores for all existing entries and profiles will be reset and there will be a lot or re-ranking of designers. Are you all prepared for that to happen?
The ranking as of now is not based on which entry’s that are good anyways, its based on whoever gets the most clicks by any means possible, for example by hotlinking their entry or cheating in my opinion, but call it what you want :) Have a look at 99designs for example. Thats a much better option. With that said hotlinking entry’s is NOT a bad thing and it’s certainly good for logosauce as a website if you think about SEO, but it should not generate score.
However that is only the small problem.. The big problem in my opinion is all the closed competitions without winners.
Jimholio – It’s actually a combination of clicks and votes – not just clicks. So make a suggestion how to deal with that problem.
Well if you really wanna stick with the points system, my suggestion would be to only register points by members logged on to the site, but I think the whole review or rating system could be taken a lot further. Read RetroMetro/Steve last post and have a look at 99designs . com if you haven’t done that already, obviously I’m not asking you to copy them but go have a look for some inspiration :)
Either way, you are doing a great job here Digger, keep it up.
Marcus – I got your 3 emails (this morning) but have not had time to reply yet. Rules state that you need Paypal – anything else is a pain the arse. But I’ll see what we can do.
A ranking system is a good idea, I think Logotournament.com uses this system and I think it works well but it does depend heavily on client interaction.
One thing I would also say about Logotournament is that they have huge amounts of competitions – Digger, do you know how they advertise? it appears to be working.
Another thing about the Logotournament (don’t worry I’m not trying to plug it) is that I absolutely HATE with a passion the layout and the way in which the entries are viewed and much prefer what you have on LogoSauce.
I think limitation on the amount of designs a designer enters is not the way forward, but not sure what the solution is.
Anyway, I think you do a fantastic job at LogoSauce, long may it continue. James
Dare I say it – another copy. Looks a lot like 99Designs.
I think a way we designers can improve LogoSauce internally is to comment and critique each others work more often…
Even in a competition setting we should push we other to improve our designs… that way we improve in our field and the client has a stronger portfolio to choose from. It only makes us stronger and would make LogoSauce a more productive studio.
So, my recommendation would be to make users that vote fill out the comment section!
We do that now already Helms.
I’ve looked at logotournament a couple of times, and it’s a very cluttered site with lots of in-your-face wiz-bang user-interface gizmos.
The simplicity of Logosauce’s user interface is much nicer.
By the way, is the “currently in beta” tag line going or going to stay?
Utilising Metadata
I sometimes fill out the standard and custom tags when submitting entries, what about a page such as this one that assembles these tags for easy access by tagged category:
www.graffletopia.com/stencils/tags
This would make it easier for clients to browse relevant entries (e.g. by industry) and encourage us designers to include useful metadata with our entries.
I tag (nearly) all my stuff…the only nuisance is when I have to make a change – then I have to go back yet again and re-do all my tags (I hope that can be sorted out…?).
Tags: We’re changing the way describing tagging works so that it’s more open than now. Essentially you add any tag you want, but we’ll ask for at least 1-3 tags as amandatory because we don’t want no tags against logos.
This is a move away from forcing your to pick a pre configured color tag for example.. I hope that designers are disciplined enough to remember to add tags though – there are plkenty of example of designs with no description and no sensible tag.
Yes we’ll chuck in a tag cloud too – mainly because I find interesting to see a view of activity that way.
Steve – I’m not sure how to get around the having to change a tag if you change the design problem.
I would like to see a better user homepage, with alerts to new comments or favorites and who did, so you can thank them, kind of like deviantart I know you have the rss, but that is just a pain to me. And maybe a forum, for all the designers to air their grievances with one another so it doesn’t end up on the contest pages.
@blacklab – yeh a personal dashboard would be the ticket – we’re looking at that.
Hey guys,
I already pitched this idea to Digger and he thinks that many of the ideas I put forward were valid, but I wanted to see what you guys thought… I think the system I will describe will solve MANY of your above questions/problems with Logosauce already.
“I had an idea for your site, which I’d hope you would take on because I feel it would ensure only quality works/finals to be submitted! Right now, there is a mentality that this kind of logo work is an easy way to get cash… That is why you see so many logos that are unprofessional and not suited to the brief.I feel the best way to counteract this attitude is to have a set of deliverables that are NEEDED, to be able to submit the final logo. For example, the following MUST be submitted before the final!
- Concept Development (possibly pencil sketches) - Work in Progress/Refinements (WIP) - Finals
I got this idea from www.cgsociety.org where they sometimes set up challenges similar to Logosauce, but rather for Digital Art. The results are always of high standard, because it attracts real professionals, or at least those who are willing to go through the process and not just submit some 15 minute worked piece.
The way they hold their competitions is also very smart. It is in a forum style, where every participant has their own thread where they can submit their milestones and people can comment/critique etc. For example: http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=278 If Logosauce were to do this the number of comments/critiques would increase because it wouldn’t seem like such a BIG deal… It will also create a tighter community, which is always nice.
This process ENSURES quality, and it will filter out all those not willing to put in any sort of effort, and in my opinion that is what any designer wants. If you guys are really passionate about this, then I’d suspect you feel the same way as me and we can all band together to do something to help the situation.
I’d really hope to see this change in the future, because I know that a lot of quality designers are leaving your site because of the issues “Spec Work” stimulates.
Cheers guys Mason Roberts"
I would like to see some better tools for communication, although forum has been discussed and I assume voted down better means of communication between the members would be a great way to take logosauce further. Also I would like to see changes in the scoring system… For example, hotlinking a logo from an active forum can give a logotype incredibly high score very fast. As I see it, it would be better if the scores would be based on registered members only. If you have a look at behance.net for example it works a lot better and also it won’t give the competition holder flawed ideas of which logos that are good and not.
Either that, or remove the points all in all.
As for the competitions, There are people who has invested a lot of time in some competitions where a winner was never chosen. These old competitions that never closes should either be totally removed or have a winner declared within a set date. For further competitions there should be a set date when the winner needs to be declared by the competition holder and/or after that by Logosauce.
As for the layout in general I think you guys have done a great job and I dont really see any need for changing a simple but yet powerful layout.
Well thats what I think :)